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[19]Nonintervention: The Original Foreign Policy

   This is a series of six YouTube videos of Ron Pauls speech at the
   Future of Freedom Foundation conference in June.

   Submitted:
          99 days ago, made popular 99 days ago

   Submitter:
          [20]goldstandard71 [21]goldstandard71   (news: [22]submissions,
          [23]diggs, [24]comments)

   Topic:
          [25]News » [26]World & Business » [27]Political Opinion

   Source:
          [28]lewrockwell.com

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     * [below viewing threshold, [38]show comment]  -22 diggs
       d1ricks  by [39]d1ricks on [40]06/19/2007
       US Apparatchik readum and weep. Give up now, get productive jobs
       and enjoy your later years.
       [41]View 19 replies to this comment (most popular has 22 diggs)
     * -2 diggs Bury Digg
       linkin1  by [42]linkin1 on [43]06/19/2007
       nonintervention policy...the policy america paid for in WWI & WWII
       with thousands of soldiers.
       [44]View 10 replies to this comment (most popular has 19 diggs)
     * +2 diggs Bury Digg
       SnowflakePillow  by [45]SnowflakePillow on [46]06/19/2007
       Well if Prescott Bush (W.s Grandfather / Bush Sr.s Father) and
       the Rockefellers hadnt been funding and fueling the Nazi forces,
       they never would have been able to bomb Britain and
       non-intervention wouldve worked. Remember, non-intervention means
       no help for either side not from your politicians, not from your
       armies, NOT FROM YOUR RICH BANKING ELITE, not from anyone.
       [47]View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 9 diggs)
     * [below viewing threshold, [48]show comment]  -8 diggs
       ragsmaloy  by [49]ragsmaloy on [50]06/19/2007
       Sorry, digg down this misplaced reply
       [51]View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)
     * [below viewing threshold, [52]show comment]  -8 diggs
       bightchee  by [53]bightchee on [54]06/19/2007
       As if my bury as spam" muscles hadnt gotten enough of a workout
       today. Ron Paul is not a prophet and no one person deserves this
       much praise. None of what he is doing is going to have his face
       end up next to Gandhi in an Apple store display window.
       [55]View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 7 diggs)
     * +4 diggs Bury Digg
       thcobbs  by [56]thcobbs on [57]06/19/2007
       Marshall plan anyone?
     * +5 diggs Bury Digg
       JamesWilson  by [58]JamesWilson on [59]06/19/2007
       Its the Prime Directive!
     * [below viewing threshold, [60]show comment]  -5 diggs
       Octantis  by [61]Octantis on [62]06/19/2007
       Ron Paul said something. Digg it!
       [63]View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 13 diggs)
     * [below viewing threshold, [64]show comment]  -7 diggs
       Bossobass  by [65]Bossobass on [66]06/19/2007
       >>>Well if Prescott Bush (W.s Grandfather / Bush Sr.s Father)
       and the Rockefellers hadnt been funding and fueling the Nazi
       forces, they never would have been able to bomb Britain and
       non-intervention wouldve worked. Remember, non-intervention means
       no help for either side not from your politicians, not from your
       armies, NOT FROM YOUR RICH BANKING ELITE, not from anyone.
     * [below viewing threshold, [67]show comment]  -5 diggs
       Bossobass  by [68]Bossobass on [69]06/19/2007
       >>>Well if Prescott Bush (W.s Grandfather / Bush Sr.s Father)
       and the Rockefellers hadnt been funding and fueling the Nazi
       forces, they never would have been able to bomb Britain and
       non-intervention wouldve worked. Remember, non-intervention means
       no help for either side not from your politicians, not from your
       armies, NOT FROM YOUR RICH BANKING ELITE, not from anyone.
       BINGO! Give that man a star.
       Ask yourself how in hell Hitler got the money to build the biggest
       armed force in history...in the depths of the Great Depression.
       Study every coup, civil war, police action etc., since WWII and
       youll find 2 striking similarities: 1) The involvement of our CIA
       (Rockefellers hit squad) and 2) The bankers/arms dealers
       financing and arming both sides.
       No money, no arms...no war...period.
       Bosso
       [70]View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)
     * +3 diggs Bury Digg
       BohicaTwentyTwo  by [71]BohicaTwentyTwo on [72]06/19/2007
       Why should the worlds only superpower have the same foreign
       policy of an agrarian former colony? Please do not respond with an
       Appeal to Authority.
       [73]View 5 replies to this comment (most popular has 5 diggs)
     * [below viewing threshold, [74]show comment]  -5 diggs
       oxigen  by [75]oxigen on [76]06/19/2007
       The only thing that worries me about Ron Paul is that he is a
       libertarian, and as an anarchist, hes supposed to be my mortal
       enemy. But he reasoning is clear, and Im certainly willing to
       give him a chance. Although we may not agree on the issue of
       capitalism, we both have one very strong view in common: the
       reduction of government.
       [77]View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 5 diggs)
     * -1 diggs Bury Digg
       3tcp  by [78]3tcp on [79]06/19/2007
       auto-buried for lew rockwell
     * +5 diggs Bury Digg
       txpenguin  by [80]txpenguin on [81]06/19/2007
       Ron Paul believes in the Constitution, which is a far thing from
       being an anarchist. He consistently practices what he preaches, as
       is readily apparent from his voting record in Congress. Our policy
       of intervening in the affairs of foreign countries, especially
       since WWII, has gotten us into the mess we find ourselves in vis a
       vis Iraq and Afghanistan. In all likelihood, we will be at war
       with Iran before Bush leaves office. We have not won a single
       major conflict since WWII, because Congress has ceded its power to
       make war to the president. President Bush has made a mess out of
       our foreign policy, and caused our military to be stretched to the
       breaking point. It is not, however, entirely his fault. Congress,
       with very few notable exceptions such as Congressman Paul, has
       gone along for the ride in the hope of political gain. The results
       of the no-win, undeclared and unconstitutional wars in Korea,
       Vietnam, Somalia, Afghanistan, and Iraq should not surprise
       anyone. When the going gets tough, too many Congressman get scared
       and want to bail out. They never bother to think through the
       downside of their fabulous little wars before they allow the
       president to start them. This kind of foolishness will continue to
       happen until we elect leaders who can return to the non
       interventionist foreign policy of Washington, Jefferson and John
       Quincy Adams. Some people like to parrot the canard that things
       are different" because of 9/11. The truth is quite the opposite.
       Our Founders were much wiser than the current crop of politicians
       we are stuck with.
       [82]View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has -2 diggs)
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       fuzzmeister  by [83]fuzzmeister on [84]06/19/2007
       Question: does said nonintervention apply to a situation, where,
       say, North Korea attacked Japan?
       [85]View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)
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       txpenguin  by [86]txpenguin on [87]06/19/2007
       If North Korea attacked Japan, Kim Jong Il would rue the day he
       was born. The Japanese are fully capable of defending themselves,
       as are the South Koreans.
       [88]View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 5 diggs)
     * +2 diggs Bury Digg
       txpenguin  by [89]txpenguin on [90]06/19/2007
       The Japanese maintain a small, but first class military in the
       guise of a self defense force. They also have the technology to
       manufacture nuclear weapons on very short notice (if they do not
       have them already). Their martial tradition is still very strong.
       Kim Jong Il knows this, and he would be met by a buzzsaw if he
       were foolish enough to try to invade Japan. The Japanese might
       take some significant losses at first, but soon or later they
       would send lil Kim back from whence he came.
       [91]View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)
     * +2 diggs Bury Digg
       PatriotOne  by [92]PatriotOne on [93]06/19/2007
       Ron Paul advocates leading by example just as our founding fathers
       advocated. By being a true free and democratic government and
       being successful at it is what makes others want to emulate you.
       You can not do it by being bullies and going over and killing
       their people. It just causes the very people you are trying to
       convert to hate the so-called free country.
       Do you really think we are garnering the favor and respect of the
       Iraqi people by killing their children, mothers and fathers? No
       you fools...we are creating more people who hate us because we
       killed their mother, father, child, brother, sister and friends.
       For every person we kill, we probably create 10 more people who
       hate us (they would now be defined as terrorists).
       Do you really think we are being looked at as liberators now?
       They want us out of their country! They kow we are securing their
       oil. They know we are building an embassy larger than the Vatican
       so we can permantly occupy them and look after the U.S. interests.
       We are killing their loved ones. We are now killing the very
       people that are now terrorists because we killed their family and
       friends.
       The reason Iraqis are not motivated to fight for their own
       country is because its the U.S. they want out of Iraq, not other
       Iraqis.
       WE ARE THE TERRORISTS YOU FOOLS!
       [94]View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)
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       txpenguin  by [95]txpenguin on [96]06/19/2007
       According to the CIA, Japan ranks number five in the world as to
       defense spending. Their nuclear capability is highly developed,
       and Japan could produce nuclear weapons in very short order (if
       they do not have them already). They maintain a small, but first
       class military in the guise of a self defense force. The North
       Koreans, if they were foolish enough to invade, would inflict some
       significant loses at first, but sooner or later, the Japanese
       would send lil Kim back from whence he came.
       [97]View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)
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       txpenguin  by [98]txpenguin on [99]06/19/2007
       Why dont we address the real bugaboo that the
       unilateralists/interventionists like to tout, and that is what
       should we do if Iran attacks Israel? Tehran is not going to do it,
       even if the Iranians develop a nookaler weapon. Why not? Because
       it is a known fact that the Israelis have nuclear weapons that
       number in the hundreds. They can be delivered via missile or
       attack aircraft. In addition to that, if by some chance Iran
       managed to mount a conventional or nuclear attack on Israel, the
       Israelis have a significant second strike capability through
       submarine launched nuclear warheads. If the Iranians are foolish
       enough to seriously entertain the idea of attacking Israel, they
       are doing so in the full knowledge that the Israelis can and will
       reduce Tehran all major Iranian population centers to smoking
       heaps of rubble in about 15 minutes. Israel needs no help from the
       United States to destroy Iran.
     * +1 diggs Bury Digg
       aserer511  by [100]aserer511 on [101]06/19/2007
       noninterventionalism=cruelty.
       point in case: holocaust+darfur
       [102]View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has -1 diggs)
     * +2 diggs Bury Digg
       WhiteRaven  by [103]WhiteRaven on [104]06/19/2007
       Nonintervention is functionally identical to pacifism and is
       invalid for exactly the same reason. If any of the world chooses
       to be interventionist", they have free reign to interfere
       wherever they like without fear of reprisal.
       The only way to be non-interventionist while maintaining
       sovereignty is to be a client state protected under the umbrella
       of an interventionist power... which of course calls into question
       whether you are in fact sovereign.
       Without the protection of a power that is willing to go forth and
       head off looming threats, a isolationist state has no leverage to
       use against trading partners, trading adversaries and aggressive,
       ideological foes. Ultimately, a state can not prosper without both
       having a stick" and being willing to use it beyond their borders.
       The conflicts in the middle east are the result of both economics
       (oil") and ideological aggression. And of course, the two feed
       off each other. However, most pacifists and non-interventionists"
       operate under the assumption that the stated expansionist goals of
       militant Islamics are either simply hot air or are entirely
       motivated by the perceived interference of the West in the
       politics and faith of Muslims. However, the facts say otherwise.
       How many simmering Islamic rebellions or, alternatively,
       domineering Islamic regimes are there across Southeast Asia? And
       while he root cause of so much of the violence in sub-Saharan
       Africa may be tribal" but it is fed and nurtured by radical
       Islamic ideology.
       When the ideological threat of Islam couples with the economic
       reality of oil, intervention becomes imperative. When Bin Laden
       cites the pretense of western troops on holy soil, that is a handy
       rallying point, NOT the fundamental motivation. Sure, as long as
       Western powers have a presence in traditional Muslim lands, that
       presence will be made a target and a motivational point. Were
       those troops and corporations not there, the rallying point would
       probably be the corrupting influence of global media (see Irans
       most recent crackdown on pornography). The point is, the
       fundamental motivation is to force the world to bow to the rule of
       fundamental Islam.
       By intervening in the region, we seek to sap the strength of the
       movement at its core. We intervene because it is an efficient,
       effective use of resources. Waiting for Islamic armies to grow and
       nuclear arms to be produced is just stupid... and that is what the
       non-interventionists would have us do. WE CAN NOT APPEASE RADICAL
       IDEOLOGIES. Not without loosing everything we hold valuable. They
       do not intend to respect our liberty, our life or our sovereignty.
       Intervention is what is needed to protect our lives, our freedom
       and our identity.
       [105]View 8 replies to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)
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       txpenguin  by [106]txpenguin on [107]06/19/2007
       According to Michael Scheurer, former head of the bin Laden Unit
       at the CIA, Osama does indeed believe that the presence of
       American and other non Islamic troops in Muslim lands is an
       affront to Islam and thus the reason for his jihad against us. Our
       life, liberty, etc. do not concern him. But what does Scheurer
       know?
       [108]View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 0 diggs)
     * -1 diggs Bury Digg
       txpenguin  by [109]txpenguin on [110]06/20/2007
       My point is that we would be better off if we minded our own
       business. Bin Laden made the point many times that he does not
       fight against the US because he wants a global caliphate or
       because he hates our freedoms. He wants us out of Saudi Arabia,
       Iraq and Afghanistan. I, like Scheurer, am not a pacifist. A
       nation has a right to self defense, and once the fight is joined
       in self defense, it had better be to win. But if a nation
       continuously goes abroad looking for monsters to destroy," as
       John Quincy Adams put it, then from time to time it will get
       burned. In the Middle East, since WWII, we have instigated a coup
       against a democratically elected government (Iran, 1953), propped
       up an oppressive monarchy (Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi in Iran,
       1953-1978), armed and supported in Afghanistan what later became
       the Taliban in their fight against the Soviet Union, supported
       Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran (1980-1988), propped up a
       corrupt and repressive monarchy in the Saudi royal family
       (1946-the present), given billions to a corrupt and repressive
       dictator in Egypt (Mubarak,1981-the present), invaded a sovereign
       nation and occupied it against the will of its people (Iraq,
       2003-the present), undermined a democratically elected government
       in the Palestinian territories (Hamas), given virtually
       unconditional support to Israel, regardless of what she does
       (2000-the present), etc. Now that is just about as interventionist
       as you can get. Have we as a nation benefited from all this
       meddling in the affairs of Muslim nations? I submit that the
       answer to that question is a resounding NO!
     * -1 diggs Bury Digg
       lifeasariver  by [111]lifeasariver on [112]06/20/2007
       so much noise, my head hurts...
       Does anyone of you really think that the US policy will turn 180
       degrees and thats it, game over, a thousand years of peace? The
       only candidate that would actually try that would be Ron Paul but
       hes chances are way too slim. And lets say he wins the
       nomination and the general elections. What would the neocons do?
       Say darn it, too bad we lost, thats life"? Or orchestrate
       another false-flag attack that blame it on non-interventionist"
       Ron Paul policies? Ron Paul is talking way too much against
       Federal Reserve and dont forget 4 presidents have been already
       killed for such blasphemy. All these libertarian ideas, that I
       personally love, are just dreams folks, they are never gonna
       happen. Vote for whoever you think deserves your vote but be
       certain that in 8 years we all will have barcodes tattooed on our
       necks or RFIDs in our skins. Dream of liberty because it is a
       noble dream, but weve lost and theyve won. We have 8 years till
       1984".
     * +2 diggs Bury Digg
       WhiteRaven  by [113]WhiteRaven on [114]06/20/2007
       @terr01
       Islamic law is just part of their nationalistic structure, the
       same way that Communism was for North Vietnam. It is the symptom
       of the domestic power struggle, not the cause.
       Militant Islam is a philosophy of life. It is a meme. It can be
       transfered to new people in new regions. How many examples are
       there of people born into non-Islamic countries and some
       non-Muslim faith who have chosen to convert and engage is
       militant, often violent behavior? Perhaps you are using the term
       nationalism" in an extremely abstract sense. Do you simply mean
       identifying with and feeling a sense of belonging with a group? If
       so then yes, that is a significant part of militant Isam... as it
       is a part with many, many philosophies and sub-cultures. But
       calling that nationalism" both implies associations that dont
       exist and makes it sound less threatening. To me, nationalism
       requires a grounding in historic precedence and regional identity.
       Militant Islam is far more dangerous. It has no center and no
       limitation and has a core philosophy that encourages violence and
       doesnt recognize the concept of innocents. By contrast, communism
       recognizes central authority and, while it does tend to treat
       human life as cheap, it does not welcome death or sacrifice with
       the kind of eagerness Islam does.
       And if they didnt disapprove, would you have argued that "it
       shows how much they believe in Islam that they didnt care the
       Kosovars were westernized?"
       Huh? If they didnt disapprove then they simply wouldnt be a
       threat to anyone. It is the adamant, violence-inspiring
       disapproval of lifestyles that do not meet their standards that
       makes them dangerous. It is why there is so much violence *among*
       Muslims.
       Like I said about "Al Queda Proper" (to distinguish against the
       name-branding of Al Queda in Iraq"), Im not referring to the
       mujahideen etc, the fighting edge" of the movements, but their
       popular core which they require for any serious threats to the US.
       (9/11 was something of a fluke with mixed results for Al Queda,
       but thats another thread right there.
       That fighting edge" is killing tens of thousands of people every
       year. You want to ignore it? You think the false security of
       isolationism is worth that price? Thats just not rational. You
       are wrong, a popular core" is not necessary for this to be a
       threat to the world. The facts are rubbing themselves in your
       face. The events across the world taking place right this second
       PROVE THE REALITY OF THE THREAT. Your heartless, short-sighted
       disregard for the ongoing chaos and violence and fear and your
       unbelievably naive belief that isolationism (which after all is
       not the same as actual isolation which is simply not achievable in
       the modern world) provides any protection from it simply isnt
       rational. All the evidence is there for us, playing itself out
       daily. There are people who want to destroy us and the nature of
       the modern world gives them ample tools with which to do it. We
       cant let them operate unfettered.
       The core of the movement is (at least as spun to the populace)
       defense, righting perceived wrongs, driving away the other",
       regardless of the economic and personal costs, and thats
       something that can be seen in any state.
       No, you are factually incorrect. The theme is not driving out"
       nor is it retaliation. It is punishment against those that defy
       *God*. Sure, perceived wrongs are also cited but they have little
       real bearing on the core motivation of the most dangerous and
       active threats. Your problem is that you simply refuse to
       recognize that this is all a matter of religious faith. By
       insisting on viewing it as a form of nationalism, you gloss over
       the true nature of the problem.
       What we need to do is work in ways that support their domestic
       opposition,
       It is absolutely bizarre that you believe that the people involved
       see support of domestic opposition as being functionally any
       different from military strikes. You do realize that a major
       motivating factor is the influence on Islamic *culture* that the
       mere existence of the West is having, dont you? Military strikes
       *kill the bad guys*. Your style of diplomatic/societal
       intervention is actually more offensive and galvanizing while
       having no actual beneficial impact. Your way motivates stoning in
       the streets and death sentences against authors along with the
       suicide bombings and general mayhem. And your way gains us nothing
       in return.
     * +1 diggs Bury Digg
       txpenguin  by [115]txpenguin on [116]06/20/2007
       Islam, militant or otherwise, is not some monolithic way of life.
       Before the US invaded Afghanistan, the Iranians did everything
       they could to undermine the Taliban. The Taliban considered the
       Shia of Iran apostates. The two peoples did not get along at all.
       While the US supported the mujaheddin of Afghanistan against the
       Soviets, those militant Islamic fighters considered the US a
       friend and benefactor. I dont say that bin Laden individually was
       ever a CIA asset" during the war against the Soviets in
       Afghanistan, but he certainly was not at that time an enemy of the
       United States. The militant Islamists in Afghanistan were
       collectively our assets against the Soviets, and we openly used
       them as such. What has consistently angered Muslims and motivated
       them to take up arms against America is our occupation of their
       lands. We are now perceived to be the inheritors of British and
       Soviet imperialism. We are and have been over there" for quite
       some time now. It should therefore come as no surprise that some
       of those people, who happen to be Islamic, might want to come
       over here" and kill us in reprisal. Consider what any loyal
       American would do if faced with the prospect of the Chinese or any
       other foreign power coming over here to change our way of life.
       We are very close to attacking Iran over their refusal to
       terminate their nuclear program, whether peaceful or otherwise.
       The United States has troops in Iraq, Afghanistan and airbases in
       Turkey. We have on station in the Persian Gulf two aircraft
       carriers with attendant battle fleets. After hearing the bellicose
       rhetoric of the Bush Administration against Iran, is it not
       possible that the Iranians, militant Muslims or otherwise, are
       mulling over what their defensive options might be? It might be
       that they feel some (gasp!) nuclear deterrence is warranted given
       these circumstances. Shirin Ebadi, the Nobel Prize winning female
       Iranian poet and vociferous critic of the government of Iran, has
       stated that if we want to radicalize the Iranian population and
       induce them to rise up against us, there could be no better way
       than to pick a fight with her nation. So by all means, lets go
       ahead and bomb and invade Iran. Then, we can go on to Pakistan and
       kill all of the radical Islamists there. But why stop in Pakistan?
       On to Indonesia, the nation with the largest Muslim population.
       Thailand and the Philippines await with their radical Islamic
       fighters. Lets just keep on sticking our nose into every hornets
       nest we can find while hoping the Chinese let us control the
       entire Middle East and all of Southwest Asia. Im sure they wont
       mind.
     * -1 diggs Bury Digg
       BenFranklin73  by [117]BenFranklin73 on [118]06/21/2007
       Main Entry: in·ter·ven·tion·ism
       Pronunciation: -ven(t)-sh&-ni-z&m
       Function: noun
       : the theory or practice of intervening; specifically :
       governmental interference in economic affairs at home or in
       political affairs of another country
       Its amazing those you think that getting to involved in another
       countrys affairs is a good thing?! Even our Founding Fathers
       warned against including ourselves in the intrigues of other
       nations. What good has come of our constant meddling...lives
       snuffed out because of our countrys goals of Empire. When a real
       threat to freedom ariseson our shores, of course we should take
       action...but by no means should we bleed upon anothers soil for a
       false sense of promoting Democracy. We are a Constitutional
       Republic, and no democratic society has ever lasted for long. Even
       now we are slipping headlong into a Fascist police state. Everyday
       our Constitution is ignored, we have our own politicians calling
       it a quaint piece of paper-a novelty. The President" himself has
       called it,  Just a god-damned piece of paper!" As far as WW 1 and
       2 goes, the Banks made and still make profit off of war...our
       government has been too complicit in the wars started. For
       goodness-sakes LBJ lied about the Gulf of Tonkin becuase he wanted
       us to get into the Southeast conflict. No we can help a country
       out so far as it isnt costing us lives or treasure any who thinks
       otherwise is a fool or willing to see his own freedoms soon gone.
       Those are soon to be gone, Bush has passed every Act, Law or
       signed any U.N. treaty to see to that. The Crusades were wrong
       before and theyre just as wrong now!
     * 0 diggs Bury Digg
       shipple  by [119]shipple on [120]06/21/2007
       If you like Ron Paul, check out -- FreeStateProject*org --
     * +1 diggs Bury Digg
       P1d40n3  by [121]P1d40n3 on [122]06/22/2007
       Total nonintervention is a pipe dream. With the US as the power
       that it is, with globalism marching ever forward, the concept of
       totally removing ourselves from the affairs of the world is
       absurd. Were large, and like it or not, were kinda in charge, if
       only in a first among equals way. That being said, should we NOT
       be so damn nosy and bossy? Hell yeah. Our leaders need to learn
       when to just stay out of over peoples shit. But total
       nonintervention? It would never work.
     * +2 diggs Bury Digg
       Liam76  by [123]Liam76 on [124]06/22/2007
       Nonintervention made sense when we were on across the ocean from
       the countries we would be interfering with. Times have changed.
       Things that go on on the opposite side fo the world can and do
       have an immediate effect in our day to day lives. To not exert our
       influence, or at least not to look out ofr interest and stop those
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